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	<title>Comments on: Connect with Sarah Ockler: Amazonfail a Win for the Indies?</title>
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	<link>http://www.authorsnow.com/connect-with-sarah-ockler-amazonfail-a-win-for-the-indies/</link>
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		<title>By: Elena</title>
		<link>http://www.authorsnow.com/connect-with-sarah-ockler-amazonfail-a-win-for-the-indies/comment-page-1/#comment-1879</link>
		<dc:creator>Elena</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Jun 2009 06:07:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.authorsnow.com/?p=3556#comment-1879</guid>
		<description>Hello Sarah -- I live abroad, Amazon has always been very convenient for me, I&#039;ve spent a hefty chunk at Amazon over the past 20 years, but haven&#039;t spend a dime since April.  Still, I&#039;m not altogether certain that&#039;s the right course of action, because in a way it gives validity to this monstrously unfair and disgusting policy of plain and simple censorship. 

Maybe I can buy my books elsewhere, but by doing so I am validating Amazon&#039;s narrow minded view of the world, I am accepting that censorship is OK, and I am just giving up and accepting to lose this moral battle.  Like I said, I&#039;m not convinced this is the right course of action for me.

You quote Francine Saint Marie&#039;s quest – I&#039;ve been following that one, and I am rather shocked at the lack of commentary and/or support from other authors on the topic.  Granted, it&#039;s not easy nor fun to fight against the machine, but what is achieved by staying put and not saying anything? Just that Amazon&#039;s &quot;adult&quot; policy is withheld with total impunity, and that the near monopoly that they are dictates in practice what people may find and eventually read.

The latest disgrace in this story – which by no means concluded at the end of April, is that Amazon has removed the author&#039;s blogs from the selling point.  Francine Saint Marie kept blogging on Amazon about this censorship ordeal (along the lines of what can be read in the linked article), until a couple of days ago when Amazon decided they&#039;d had enough and just took the blog down.  Just like that.

In my opinion, this goes beyond book buying habits, to me personally it&#039;s turned into a matter of rectifying a serious wrong.

Thanks for the space to put a word in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello Sarah &#8212; I live abroad, Amazon has always been very convenient for me, I&#8217;ve spent a hefty chunk at Amazon over the past 20 years, but haven&#8217;t spend a dime since April.  Still, I&#8217;m not altogether certain that&#8217;s the right course of action, because in a way it gives validity to this monstrously unfair and disgusting policy of plain and simple censorship. </p>
<p>Maybe I can buy my books elsewhere, but by doing so I am validating Amazon&#8217;s narrow minded view of the world, I am accepting that censorship is OK, and I am just giving up and accepting to lose this moral battle.  Like I said, I&#8217;m not convinced this is the right course of action for me.</p>
<p>You quote Francine Saint Marie&#8217;s quest – I&#8217;ve been following that one, and I am rather shocked at the lack of commentary and/or support from other authors on the topic.  Granted, it&#8217;s not easy nor fun to fight against the machine, but what is achieved by staying put and not saying anything? Just that Amazon&#8217;s &#8220;adult&#8221; policy is withheld with total impunity, and that the near monopoly that they are dictates in practice what people may find and eventually read.</p>
<p>The latest disgrace in this story – which by no means concluded at the end of April, is that Amazon has removed the author&#8217;s blogs from the selling point.  Francine Saint Marie kept blogging on Amazon about this censorship ordeal (along the lines of what can be read in the linked article), until a couple of days ago when Amazon decided they&#8217;d had enough and just took the blog down.  Just like that.</p>
<p>In my opinion, this goes beyond book buying habits, to me personally it&#8217;s turned into a matter of rectifying a serious wrong.</p>
<p>Thanks for the space to put a word in.</p>
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		<title>By: C. Lee McKenzie</title>
		<link>http://www.authorsnow.com/connect-with-sarah-ockler-amazonfail-a-win-for-the-indies/comment-page-1/#comment-1321</link>
		<dc:creator>C. Lee McKenzie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 23:21:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.authorsnow.com/?p=3556#comment-1321</guid>
		<description>Coming as this has just now is very ironic. I just switched to doing business with Amazon because I was running short of time to scout the Indies. It won&#039;t be difficult to reverse that decision, so I probably will.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Coming as this has just now is very ironic. I just switched to doing business with Amazon because I was running short of time to scout the Indies. It won&#8217;t be difficult to reverse that decision, so I probably will.</p>
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		<title>By: Doret</title>
		<link>http://www.authorsnow.com/connect-with-sarah-ockler-amazonfail-a-win-for-the-indies/comment-page-1/#comment-1294</link>
		<dc:creator>Doret</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 02:44:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.authorsnow.com/?p=3556#comment-1294</guid>
		<description>Hopefully this Amazonfail will mean business for bookstores because bookstores need customers right now. I know Amazon is quick and you don&#039;t have to leave the house or get out of your P.J&#039;s but there is something about interacting with a bookseller that Amazon can&#039;t replace.  Sure it can show you 5 stars for Graceling or Crooked Kind of Perfect but a bookseller will make you feel it.   Booksellers and customers can bond over the books they love, you can&#039;t do that with your computer.   And though I work at a bookstore, I still give my library card a work out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hopefully this Amazonfail will mean business for bookstores because bookstores need customers right now. I know Amazon is quick and you don&#8217;t have to leave the house or get out of your P.J&#8217;s but there is something about interacting with a bookseller that Amazon can&#8217;t replace.  Sure it can show you 5 stars for Graceling or Crooked Kind of Perfect but a bookseller will make you feel it.   Booksellers and customers can bond over the books they love, you can&#8217;t do that with your computer.   And though I work at a bookstore, I still give my library card a work out.</p>
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		<title>By: Lauren Bjorkman</title>
		<link>http://www.authorsnow.com/connect-with-sarah-ockler-amazonfail-a-win-for-the-indies/comment-page-1/#comment-1292</link>
		<dc:creator>Lauren Bjorkman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 02:17:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.authorsnow.com/?p=3556#comment-1292</guid>
		<description>Amazonfail has opened my eyes, and changed my buying habits in a good way!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amazonfail has opened my eyes, and changed my buying habits in a good way!</p>
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		<title>By: Mark A. Michaels</title>
		<link>http://www.authorsnow.com/connect-with-sarah-ockler-amazonfail-a-win-for-the-indies/comment-page-1/#comment-1266</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark A. Michaels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Apr 2009 12:01:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.authorsnow.com/?p=3556#comment-1266</guid>
		<description>Those who think this is over are mistaken. Amazon has not come clean about either the &quot;glitch&quot; or its policy, nor has it fully fixed the problem, if that was ever the intention. 

I believe that amazon was being truthful when it claimed that GLBT material was not the only target and that over 50,000 titles were affected, but that may be the only forthright statement the company has made on this subject. Both our books, along with many other titles on Tantra, were de-ranked. And this issue isn&#039;t limited to books. We&#039;ve made two instructional DVDs; both are explicit; one was (and remains) de-ranked and the other was not, which just illustrates the arbitrary nature of this &quot;policy.&quot;

As of this morning and ever since our books were de-ranked, name searches for myself have not come up with the print editions of either book. The Kindle versions show up, as does our still-ranked DVD. It&#039;s also clear that some kind of filtering is in place for adult material on my amazon homepage.  Given my browsing history, there ought to be a lot more sex-related material, as there used to be. It&#039;s also evident that our de-ranked DVD is no longer being paired with other films under the &quot;Frequently Bought Together&quot; listing. 

Amazon has enormous power, if not a near-monopoly. These measures limit customer access to our books and one of our DVDs, making them harder to find for those who are actively seeking them and directing those who might be interested to other products that haven&#039;t arbitrarily been designated as &quot;adult.&quot; This is a pernicious form of corporate censorship.

Amazon secretly tags certain materials as adult, gives no notice to authors (or producers, in the case of the DVD, I checked) and provides no recourse for challenging that designation. This uproar may have been caused by a technical error that led to the inclusion of many additional books in the “adult” category, but the attitude itself, the utter lack of transparency, and the continuing failure to respond in a meaningful way are the real issues. 

At this point, I&#039;m through with amazon, as convenient as it may be. I&#039;ll be boycotting; we&#039;ll be replacing our amazon bookstore and link to indiebound.org instead. I&#039;ve also notified the Authors Guild, and hope they&#039;ll  take on the cause.  

Here’s what amazon should do, if it wants any of my business back (though I&#039;d probably limit purchases to electronics and the like.)  Come clean about the existence of this policy; let the public know exactly what that policy is and what criteria are used when materials are designated as “adult;” provide authors with a mechanism to challenge the designation; stop hiding materials from customers who might want to purchase them; make the ranking system fair and accurate by including all books and DVDs in its catalog. If amazon deems it necessary to have a filtering system, a safe search approach would be a much less damaging way to do it, but I&#039;m not convinced that such a feature would be necessary.

The policy, not the “glitch,” is the problem. It always has been. The glitch just brought attention to a secret policy that is unacceptable in its own right.

Sorry for any typos or redundancies in this post; the lack of a preview function makes it hard to proofread.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Those who think this is over are mistaken. Amazon has not come clean about either the &#8220;glitch&#8221; or its policy, nor has it fully fixed the problem, if that was ever the intention. </p>
<p>I believe that amazon was being truthful when it claimed that GLBT material was not the only target and that over 50,000 titles were affected, but that may be the only forthright statement the company has made on this subject. Both our books, along with many other titles on Tantra, were de-ranked. And this issue isn&#8217;t limited to books. We&#8217;ve made two instructional DVDs; both are explicit; one was (and remains) de-ranked and the other was not, which just illustrates the arbitrary nature of this &#8220;policy.&#8221;</p>
<p>As of this morning and ever since our books were de-ranked, name searches for myself have not come up with the print editions of either book. The Kindle versions show up, as does our still-ranked DVD. It&#8217;s also clear that some kind of filtering is in place for adult material on my amazon homepage.  Given my browsing history, there ought to be a lot more sex-related material, as there used to be. It&#8217;s also evident that our de-ranked DVD is no longer being paired with other films under the &#8220;Frequently Bought Together&#8221; listing. </p>
<p>Amazon has enormous power, if not a near-monopoly. These measures limit customer access to our books and one of our DVDs, making them harder to find for those who are actively seeking them and directing those who might be interested to other products that haven&#8217;t arbitrarily been designated as &#8220;adult.&#8221; This is a pernicious form of corporate censorship.</p>
<p>Amazon secretly tags certain materials as adult, gives no notice to authors (or producers, in the case of the DVD, I checked) and provides no recourse for challenging that designation. This uproar may have been caused by a technical error that led to the inclusion of many additional books in the “adult” category, but the attitude itself, the utter lack of transparency, and the continuing failure to respond in a meaningful way are the real issues. </p>
<p>At this point, I&#8217;m through with amazon, as convenient as it may be. I&#8217;ll be boycotting; we&#8217;ll be replacing our amazon bookstore and link to indiebound.org instead. I&#8217;ve also notified the Authors Guild, and hope they&#8217;ll  take on the cause.  </p>
<p>Here’s what amazon should do, if it wants any of my business back (though I&#8217;d probably limit purchases to electronics and the like.)  Come clean about the existence of this policy; let the public know exactly what that policy is and what criteria are used when materials are designated as “adult;” provide authors with a mechanism to challenge the designation; stop hiding materials from customers who might want to purchase them; make the ranking system fair and accurate by including all books and DVDs in its catalog. If amazon deems it necessary to have a filtering system, a safe search approach would be a much less damaging way to do it, but I&#8217;m not convinced that such a feature would be necessary.</p>
<p>The policy, not the “glitch,” is the problem. It always has been. The glitch just brought attention to a secret policy that is unacceptable in its own right.</p>
<p>Sorry for any typos or redundancies in this post; the lack of a preview function makes it hard to proofread.</p>
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		<title>By: Catherine</title>
		<link>http://www.authorsnow.com/connect-with-sarah-ockler-amazonfail-a-win-for-the-indies/comment-page-1/#comment-1265</link>
		<dc:creator>Catherine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Apr 2009 11:41:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.authorsnow.com/?p=3556#comment-1265</guid>
		<description>Because I live outside the US (New Zealand), the cost of shipping and currency-conversion meant that Amazon.com was merely a place where I could window-shop - yes, the starting price of a book might have been lower than what I&#039;d pay down at Whitcoulls or Borders, but add on shipping etc. it&#039;d be twice the price. 

I have switched (or at least started to switch) the purchase links on my review blog from the Amazon.com store to other online store links, and I no longer link to my Amazon.com wishlist.

One good thing to come out of Amazonfail (via Sarah Rees Brennan) is the discovery of The Book Depository which does free worldwide shipping. My first book from my first purchase arrived today, and the second should arrive tomorrow or Wednesday. A fail for Amazon has meant a win for both TBD and me.

Oh, and I have a nice list of GLBT titles to check out at some point too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Because I live outside the US (New Zealand), the cost of shipping and currency-conversion meant that Amazon.com was merely a place where I could window-shop &#8211; yes, the starting price of a book might have been lower than what I&#8217;d pay down at Whitcoulls or Borders, but add on shipping etc. it&#8217;d be twice the price. </p>
<p>I have switched (or at least started to switch) the purchase links on my review blog from the Amazon.com store to other online store links, and I no longer link to my Amazon.com wishlist.</p>
<p>One good thing to come out of Amazonfail (via Sarah Rees Brennan) is the discovery of The Book Depository which does free worldwide shipping. My first book from my first purchase arrived today, and the second should arrive tomorrow or Wednesday. A fail for Amazon has meant a win for both TBD and me.</p>
<p>Oh, and I have a nice list of GLBT titles to check out at some point too.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry Schliessmann</title>
		<link>http://www.authorsnow.com/connect-with-sarah-ockler-amazonfail-a-win-for-the-indies/comment-page-1/#comment-1264</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Schliessmann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Apr 2009 11:28:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.authorsnow.com/?p=3556#comment-1264</guid>
		<description>I enjoy brick and mortar bookstores and do most of my book buying there.  Amazon&#039;s policies leave much to be desired.  If you are a POD author, but not through their POD &quot;branch&quot;, Amazon does not include a buy-it-now button with your books.  They&#039;ll list them, but customers must buy from Amazon sellers, which causes not only a delay, but makes the book seem out-of-print or used.  Sales are rare.
It is a shame that Amazonfail happened, but truthfully, I do not think they will do anything other than what they believe will produce the highest profit.
It is also a shame that the level of prejudice in America seems to be increasing.  Makes me wonder if social evolution is at all related to species evolution, which may be at a standstiil anyway.
Raise a fist and fight on!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I enjoy brick and mortar bookstores and do most of my book buying there.  Amazon&#8217;s policies leave much to be desired.  If you are a POD author, but not through their POD &#8220;branch&#8221;, Amazon does not include a buy-it-now button with your books.  They&#8217;ll list them, but customers must buy from Amazon sellers, which causes not only a delay, but makes the book seem out-of-print or used.  Sales are rare.<br />
It is a shame that Amazonfail happened, but truthfully, I do not think they will do anything other than what they believe will produce the highest profit.<br />
It is also a shame that the level of prejudice in America seems to be increasing.  Makes me wonder if social evolution is at all related to species evolution, which may be at a standstiil anyway.<br />
Raise a fist and fight on!</p>
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